Athletico Easthamico 11:19 Sat Oct 8
Was Arkle overrated?
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The horse was before my time but obviously I've seen the footage and heard enough about Arkle to believe he was the best chaser ever.
But was he really 21lb better than Kauto Star?
Are we to believe he would have beaten Dessie by 30 lengths in the King George?
That he would have given 2 stone to Denman in the Hennesy?
Should the ratings be revised?
Anybody ever see him race?
Timeform ratings below.
Arkle 1957 212
Flyingbolt 1959 210
Sprinter Sacre 2006 192p
Mill House 1957 191
Kauto Star 2000 191
Desert Orchid 1979 187
Dunkirk 1957 186
Burrough Hill Lad 1976 184
Moscow Flyer 1994 184
Long Run 2005 184
Master Oats 1986 183
Denman 2000 183
Don Cossack 2007 183
Captain Christy 1967 182
Carvill's Hill 1982 182
See More Business 1990 182
Best Mate 1995 182
Azertyuiop 1997 182
Kicking King 1998 182
Well Chief 1999 182
Cue Card 2006 182
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
GreenStreetPlayer
11:29 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Wonder what the IRA done to Shergar.
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Takashi Miike
10:22 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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*2012 Juddmonte International*
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Takashi Miike
10:21 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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my three favourite middle distance flat horses (Dancing Brave, Sea The Stars & Frankel) all had that blistering burst of pace that could destroy a race within a few strides
his battering of St Nicholas Abbey & Farhh in the 2012 is my favourite Frankel performance
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=mr_ChX6Jv4s
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Far Cough
10:00 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Nijinsky narrowly loses his unbeaten record in the Arc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSPnEWU3E7k
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Northern Sold
9:57 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Fantastic that .... love watching a good Arc... Sea the Stars one is the one that always sticks in my mind... think Aussie Jim was doing the commentary...absolutely nails it
"He's 6 or 7 lengths short... he'll have to be a good one"
"PERFECTION IN EQUINE FORM"
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neilalex
9:37 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Dancing Brave over 10 furlongs, probably his best trip. That's Triptych in second who won the Champion Stakes twice. I have never since seen such finishing pace on a middle distance horse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQSHgeaxwf0
But my all time favourite flat race
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=006B8vgTLs0
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Northern Sold
9:32 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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If you don't have a lump in your throat after this you never will... great tribute... his last Betfair I run out into the back garden and started yelling god knows what... love a good comeback... best over the sticks I have seen since I started getting into the nags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhOvEcG0zGY
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Northern Sold
9:24 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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That Crisp /Red Rum National is incredible.... best stalking you have ever seen... one of these days Crisp is gonna get home !!
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Far Cough
9:17 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Arkle, otherwise known as "Himself"
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marty feldman
9:15 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Arkles without doubt the best nh horse ever .but he wouldnt have given dessie and kauto 2 stone . Its laughable to say otherwise .
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Lertie Button
8:33 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Sorry didn't see Northern's post, but well worth repeating
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Lertie Button
8:31 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Best ever race was Grundy v Bustino in the King George
Just about finished off both horses but amazing to watch even yet.
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Athletico Easthamico
8:29 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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I suppose Crisp isn't in the ratings because he done most of his racing in Australia.
To think he nearly gave 2 stone to Red Rum, and then Red Rum went on to win the national himself carrying top weight.
Surely if Crisp beat Red Rum it would have been the greatest weight carrying performance ever?
Remember it as a kid and it still looks amazing on YouTube.
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Saul Bollox
8:18 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Don't forget Persian War owned by a Hammers supporter called Henry Alper and ran in claret with blue sleeves.Won the champion hurdle three times
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GreenStreetPlayer
6:26 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Pendil, cantering with the velvet voice of Peter O'Sullivan. He is a legend as much as the horses.
Bula as well.
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UNIHAMMERED
6:08 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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"a mention too, for the great hurdles trio of the seventies ... Monksfield, Sea Pigeon, and Night Nurse. three great champions, the ali - frazier - foreman of hurdles racing
Monksfield and Night Nurse had a great race in the 1977 Aintree hurdle ; it finished as a dead - heat. On the same day, same card was Red Rum's historic third National"
You need to add Comedy of Errors, Lanzarote, Dramatist and Bird's Nest to that list of 70's hurdlers. Certainly a golden decade for hurdling.
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Northern Sold
5:52 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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The Grundy v Bustino 75 KG & QEII stakes was not bad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWQF7yAdgP8
as was Zenyattas' Breeders Classic Cup win...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoyYGjCTQGk
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the coming of gary
2:47 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Zico mentioned Grand National regular Spanish Steps - he was famous for being the only horse ever to get placed in all the big five steeplechases - cheltenham, newbury, and sandown gold cups, boxing day king george, and grand national. Probably still holds true ?
a mention too, for the great hurdles trio of the seventies ... Monksfield, Sea Pigeon, and Night Nurse. three great champions, the ali - frazier - foreman of hurdles racing
Monksfield and Night Nurse had a great race in the 1977 Aintree hurdle ; it finished as a dead - heat. On the same day, same card was Red Rum's historic third National
.
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Far Cough
2:08 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Yeah, beat the great Mill Reef
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Northern Sold
2:05 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Read a couple of great books about supposedly the greatest horse that there has ever been... Ruffian... for even Lucien Lauren (Secretariats trainer) to say she was the better horse she must of been an absolute beast.... there's some fantastic old footage of her on You Tube including the Match Race that ended her career and sadly her life far too early...
http://www.horsecollaborative.com/ruffian-racehorse/
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Northern Sold
2:02 Tue Oct 11
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Won one of the greatest Guinea fields ever didn't he Cough... Mill Reef and co?
I saw Frankel's last race at Ascot on Champions Day and got speaking to three blokes in the grandstand... one was an old boy of about 75 years old or so and got talking about the greats and where Frankel would match against them... he said the greatest he ever saw was the Brig' but felt that day at Ascot that Frankel had met his match with the conditions (Soft Heavy in places) and that old mud loving warrior Cirrus des Aigles... watched it with the 3 blokes and the ol' fella started actually crying as he honestly thought that he would never in his lifetime see another horse on par with the Brig... have to say of all the sport I have ever seen... Football... Rugby... Cricket... I have never heard a noise like the whole of that Grandstand shouting home Frankel... absolute magic time.
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